2025-11-24: From One Joker to Another
- Log: From One Joker to Another
- Cast: Tatsuya Suou, Ren Amamiya
- Where: Mementos
- OOC Date: November 24, 2025
- IC Date: August 15, 2012
- Summary: While exploring Mementos to blow off some steam, Joker and Morgana run into someone /else/ blowing off some steam -- Tatsuya Suou. The two enter a cautious conversation that reveals some facts for both of them.
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
Jun received a direct visit from Tatsuya Sudou.
The words have been echoing in his head over and over. He's becoming more brazen. He'll continue to be more brazen. He'll start to construct events to resemble the 'Other Side' to make him remember, with a goal that's clear to both of them: to reawaken him as the Master Joker. To rip asunder This Side and undo their sacrifices...
Tatsuya's been feeling frustrated at his powerlessness -- his attempts to get closer and end him haven't borne fruit. If only he'd finished him off at Zodiac, when Shiori Miyashiro called him on herself.
"... are you sure you know nothing about Joker?"
The Eligor, who he'd knocked off his demonic horse -- which lays slain beside him (I'm sorry, horse) -- roars, "Nothing! Even if you destroy me, it won't change my answer!"
The Seven-Star Sword is pressed a little harder against his armored neck. It's all cognitive, so both combatants know that the steel won't protect against what's to come next.
Still nothing, from the Demon.
"W-wait! Hold on, I do have something juicy! I think-- those Phantom Thieves, you know them, right? I've heard one of them be called 'Joker'... that's all I know! Warrior's honour!"
Tatsuya furrows his brow further, and then lets out a low, rumbly 'tch' and kicks off off the armored Shadow's form. The Shadow turns to flee, dissolving back into its inky black form once it's torn away a good distance. A second Joker? In the Phantom Thieves? That brings to mind what Sudou was talking about. Those 'wannabes', those 'posers'. The Phantom Thieves... a masked circle...
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
Ren Amamiya is not in a good mood.
That's why they're not 'Ren Amamiya' at the moment; they're 'Joker,' plumbing the depths of Mementos in a strange black van with startlingly blue headlights and a tail for a rear bumper. They shouldn't really be here on their own, but sometimes getting into a good fight with Shadows and Demons helps clear their head--and they've got a lot on their mind right now.It isn't just the news that info on how to enter Eiji Kamiya's Palace has spread. It isn't just that Kanae Fuyuki pretended not to know them. It isn't even that Kasumi Yoshizawa decided not to join The Phantoms--that actually barely bothers them at all. No, most of it is to do with what they learned in a certain Palace that overlays Shujin Academy.
But it weighs heavy upon them--as well as their hesitation to do the obvious follow-up.
When a Shadow races past on the perpendicular tracks ahead, shifting from an Eligor to a shapeless black blob, Joker hits the brakes. They and the Monacar stare as it goes by without paying either of them any mind.
"That sure looked like that Shadow was running from something," the Monacar observes slowly from within himself. "Could something dangerous be ahead?"
"Let's check it out," Joker replies, and cautiously pumps the gas. They turn the corner, and the headlights light up...
...a person. At least, they look like a person. Joker squints behind their mask at a young brunet in red leathers with a black X on the chest. "Another Persona User?" they murmur.
"He must be pretty strong to send that Shadow packing the way he did," Monacar observes again, this time warily. "Be careful."
Joker nods--and sets him in neutral before hopping out the driver's seat to get a better look. If this doesn't need to be a fight, they don't want to provoke this stranger by being in a car at him, but at the same time, they keep one red-gloved hand hooked over the car door while they look Tatsuya over, their other hand slipping into their longcoat pocket. That's quite a sword that guy is carrying. They'd rather not put themself in range for him to use it.
"This is a hell of a place to meet a stranger," they call, projecting their deep voice and affecting a certain theatricality. "Might I ask who you are?"
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
Tatsuya doesn't flinch as lights flood his viewpoint soon after the Shadow flees.
As the Monacar turns the corner, headlights lit up...
Tatsuya Suou looks ready to fight a magic catbus. What an unusual creature... is it another Shadow? It's not like the ones he's seen at this layer. Before he can pounce and take initiative, however, a figure exits from the driver's seat. He's still got his katana ready, however. Something about this individual... perhaps it's the way he almost cuts a Master Joker-like silhouette with his mask...? No, that's absurd.
There's a certain theatricality to his voice. That's not a Demon or a Shadow, though...
"... who's asking?" is Tatsuya's curt, none-too-graceful reply. He can't be all that much older than Ren, though -- clearly still a youth in his teens, even with his tall height and poise. He's still sizing up the Monacar, as if he doesn't trust that the car won't lurch at him and try to eat him while the masked individual distracts him with chatter. Whoever this is clearly has some experience keeping his wits about him.
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
Joker considers Tatsuya when he responds by asking for their name back, after a fashion. He seems like a cautious fellow. He's not intimidated, but he isn't simply rushing to attack either. He's looking at them and Mona like he doesn't trust them... and you know what? Fair point. They'd be on guard too if they were in his shoes.
"'I'll tell you my name if you tell me yours,' hmm? Very well. I suppose it is the polite thing to do." They take a slight step away from the Monacar, slipping their other hand in their pocket as a silent way to signal they mean no harm. "In this side of unreality, I go by 'Joker'--no relation to that madman plaguing Sumaru City."
Speak of the Joker and they will appear...
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
Joker moves away from the Monacar, and holds their hands out to indicate their non-combative intent. His answer, however, makes Tatsuya's face tighten. "'Joker'..." A deeper frown, as he glances towards the Monacar, then back towards the masked individual.
Something seems to have struck a bit of a nerve within him, though he hasn't doubled his combat stance. Instead, he does quietly rise up to a straightened posture, though the sword is still held by his side.
"So you must be the Phantom Thief from the news. One of them, at least," Tatsuya observes. "... Tatsuya Suou," he does at least remember to at least respond in turn. He could've just not answered, but something in him tells him that if he leads him on, it'll get him a bit closer to digging into the truth about these Phantom Thieves... and whether or not they're bad news -- Tsubasa Seki seems to think so.
"You've been changing hearts," Tatsuya observes matter-of-factly -- and then his tone gets a bit more defensive as he accuses:
"... are you stealing their Ideal Energy to do so?"
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
It isn't a shocking reaction. That's precisely the reason why Joker always makes sure to explain they've got nothing to do with the Joker Killer. If you can sidestep a potentially violent misunderstanding, of course you should do so. But... it does seem odd that he still seems that on edge even with that caveat explained. ...At least he doesn't seem about to attack. Joker will forgive him his sword, considering they can call up their dagger at any time.
Their eyebrows rise--not that Tatsuya will see, with that mask in place--when 'Joker' is placed with 'the Phantom Thieves.' A decent number of people know that, but not that many. "One of them, yes," they agree, deciding not to fight him on it. No point in lying when he clearly already knows the truth. "A pleasure, however dubious, to make your acquaintance, Tatsuya Suou."
They've been changing hearts. That's correct, and Joker waits for the follow-up. ...It is utterly unexpected. Even with a mask, their confusion is momentarily palpable before they collect themself. "I don't know what that is," they reply, which is technically not the same as 'no.' If someone saw the amorphous, blobby light that is a Treasure before it materialized, would they call that 'Ideal Energy'? Joker personally sees nothing ideal about how Palace Rulers behave, but they'll wait for an explanation before speculating too much.
...Of course, assuming Tatsuya gives one. But Joker is choosing to remain cautiously optimistic for the moment.
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
The way this individual immediately set themself apart from the Joker Killer isn't something lost on Tatsuya Suou... and it's a minor plus point in his books -- it's far, far too easy to think of someone in line with Sudou, who wants to recreate the Masked Circle once more, re-enact the masquerade. Besides, Sudou himself seems to disapprove... which means that, by context, it isn't his creation.
It doesn't mean that he can trust it. Nyarlathotep works in ways beyond an individual's perceptions. The Phantom Thieves may very well just be one of the many other plans he's hatching, even without them knowing.
Joker confirms that they are, indeed, one of the Phantom Thieves...
...
But they don't know of what 'Ideal Energy' is.
There's a quiet frown as Tatsuya considers that exchange for a moment. They didn't seem like they were lying, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not doing it. What to do... should he press? ... even if it amounts to nothing, closing off one avenue might still be worth it.
"It's a force that resides in all human beings, embodying their dreams and hopes... an opposite to the concept of impurity you might have heard of in Shinto beliefs," Tatsuya explains, then narrows his eyes. He doesn't think this person will particularly tip anything even if he explains further, but... let's see where this leads.
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
It's true; that very well could be what's going on. The Phantom Thieves, who've never even heard of Nyarlathotep (though Joker will after they read Call of Cthulhu from the school library some months into the future), certainly couldn't say otherwise.
Tatsuya explains what Ideal Energy is. Joker considers this. Dreams and hopes are not that different from desires, but if it's something that all people have, rather than something that arises when their desires become distorted, then it sounds like-- "No. We don't steal that," they reply.
It stands out to them that Tatsuya specified that this Ideal Energy is the opposite of impurity. No--'an' opposite, he said, didn't he? Joker doesn't know what that means, but it's odd enough that they'll remember it. It feels important.
"Why do you ask? What kind of significance does this Ideal Energy have?" Joker wonders. They really haven't heard of it before. If they'd teamed up with the Cardboard dragon, would that be different?
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
It's as Tatsuya expected. This Joker will only answer as much as he needs to, and not much more -- perhaps that's the prudent way of being, after all, in his line of business. No doubt he has to elude authorities -- and he knows of at least one Awakened authority, given it's his own brother. Who knows who else is out there, able to chase them down to these spaces?
Something still unsettles Tatsuya about Joker's answer. It's clear that something is still stolen... it's spelled out in those calling cards that the public can't get enough of. This can't just be a coincidence.
...
He'll take a great risk here... but first, he has to be certain it won't spill out.
"Those who have their Ideal Energy drained become shadows of themselves... they give up on their ambitions and desires, receding into the background," Tatsuya points out, but doesn't spell out the suspicion that he harbours with Joker. Unwittingly, however, he's cottoned onto the common word -- 'desires'. Then...
"If I explain more... it'll have to stay between just us." A pause. "And your car, I suppose."
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
It is as Tatsuya expected. For as much as he's traditionally tried to keep others at arm's length, in the far past and especially recently, he has a good analytical mind. That's not a bad thing. It's a relief when people behave in a way you can predict, right?
And it is indeed clear that something is stolen. They do call themselves the Phantom Thieves, and they do indeed say as much in their calling cards. That's something Joker won't bother to lie about, either.
Joker listens to Tatsuya continue his explanation, then rests a hand on their chin. 'They give up on their ambitions and desires, receding into the background'... That does sound more like what they do, admittedly. Still, it's only a partial match. It could just be a coincidence...
When Tatsuya names his condition, Joker quirks a half-smile and pats the hood of the Monacar. "Don't worry. My car's trustworthy."
Beep beep, goes the Monacar. (That's an affirmative.)
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
... in a way, Joker didn't promise anything. They diverted to talking about the car -- who beeps in a kinda cute way. Sadly, Tatsuya Suou isn't so pliable as to be charmed by a cute magical car. ... if he was still with the old group, it probably would be Maya-nee who would first fall. And then Maya-nee would insist they all pile in while she drives the Monacar. And then they would all die a horrible death like he was convinced they would when they were going down those rapids--
...
Post-traumatic flashbacks about Maya's driving later, Tatsuya.
It is those experiences that have given him his observational skills, though. The Tatsuya before the fateful day when Eikichi's friends all had their Ideal Energy preferred to just not pay attention to people... in a way, all those events forced him to engage in the world -- however harrowing.
Fine. Even if Joker didn't promise anything...
"In the past, I've fought against a circle of masked people that drained people's Ideal Energy, robbing them of their desires and hopes... and they were all led by a certain masked individual," Tatsuya carefully explains. "Who went by the name of 'Joker'."
In the past...? Just how young was this guy when he first awakened? And if that were the case, it wasn't publicised at all, this 'Ideal Energy'-stealing incident... but he explains as if he's reliving difficult memories, brief as it is.
After all, that individual is now...
"... if I ask you 'how' you change their hearts, I doubt I'll get a clear answer from you. You seem the type to play your cards close to your chest," Tatsuya observes and assumes.
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
That's the trouble with being cute. Joker didn't mean to sidestep the request; they mean to imply they and their car agree to the terms. If anything, they're hiding that their car is a sapient creature with whom they can discuss the matter if need be, but Tatsuya did technically say it was okay. Fortunately, Tatsuya's willing to overlook it regardless.
Joker's cocksure smile fades as he continues. It sounds believable enough. They've come to realize of late that there's a lot more to the supernatural world than they actively know about--that some people have been awakened for a long time. This Tatsuya doesn't seem like he's lying, either--if anything, he's trying to be cagey about the details, rather than misrepresenting them.
"Correct. That's a trade secret," they say of how they change hearts. "However, I can tell you that our first target was that teacher from Shujin Academy, Suguru Kamoshida. We hadn't formed before then. Whoever you fought before, it wasn't us." They raise a hand to their chest. "I'm one of the founding members, so I guarantee it."
Their body language agrees: they're certain they're telling the truth, based on their clear, unflinching stare.
"We're not the only masked Persona Users around, though--and more and more, it seems like 'Joker' isn't that rare a callsign," they continue, slipping their hand back into their pocket. "At least, the way you speak of them, it sounds to me like they aren't the same as the so-called Joker Killer."
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
It doesn't help that it's Tatsuya, in a cautious and jumpy mood, who's likely to take the worse outcomes on what people say -- getting outed by Goro Akechi for not remembering him and that he was just riding his context clues all this time still stings hard. Perhaps that's the issue with being analytical -- you start to draw patterns where there might not be any. It was something that was tempered by people like Eikichi and Lisa, who more wear their hearts on their sleeves. He doesn't have the luxury of that balance anymore.
Tatsuya does relent on the observation that this 'Joker' of Tatsuya's isn't the Joker Killer. "... that's correct. But there are people with a vested interest in making history repeat. ... you might even be unwittingly be being used."
Does that mean that Tatsuya has an inkling of who?
But Joker tells him about their first target. It feels like a concession... a minor one, though, perhaps. But that also nags at him...
"... Suguru Kamoshida..." Tatsuya murmurs. He hasn't really heard about it -- he hasn't been doing a thorough, in-depth investigation into the Phantom Thieves. But that doesn't line up with something he heard either. He gestures with his free hand. "Was that really your first target?"
Tatsuya continues on with something he wanted confirmation -- and a test to see how unflappable that unflinching stare is: "I've been told that you changed the heart of someone involved in that City Hall fire, before you became publicly known. That your methods weren't as refined back then, causing a Psychotic Breakdown."
He narrows his eyes, poised to return that stare with his own glare. "... did you cause a breakdown in Tsubasa Seki?"
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
'You might even be unwittingly being used.'
"......"
That's a comment that strikes home. A certain organization has been controlling Principal Kobayakawa by paying him to accept certain students and faculty... Suguru Kamoshida was one. Ren Amamiya was another. There's a clear connection there to Joker, and it unsettles them. They've been trying to keep quiet about it to not frazzle their friends while they've got to focus on Eiji Kamiya's Palace... but it's certainly been on their mind.
This organization might have connections to the political world. Their father is a politician, however small-time. What's their connection? What did their father do to get Ren enrolled in such an outwardly prestigious school after getting expelled...? What's swirling around them in a vortex they can't even see, trying to push them in a direction they can't know?
The very idea makes them sick. The Phantom Thieves--the decision to change the hearts of the wicked--was supposed to be their own idea... their and their friends' own way of fighting back against the awful adults who kept trying to use them. Is it really possible they could've been manipulated into it somehow? But who could have known that Ren Amamiya would awaken to a Persona, and how?
Focus. Tatsuya questions them more explicitly. "Hm?" Joker murmurs, eyebrows furrowing behind their mask. He goes on...
It's ironic, really. It was only a few weeks ago that they, Queen, and Fox were speculating about exactly this. So while Joker stares at Tatsuya for a length of time that might seem suspicious...
"No."
...it's a question they've got an answer to.
"But we think we might know who did."
They gesture with one hand into the darkness. "It's only speculation on our part; we don't actually know for certain that a psychotic breakdown can be induced. However, it's theoretically possible. What's more, there's a mysterious Persona User we've encountered a few times now--a vicious, bloodthirsty madman who seems to be working for an unknown organization. He doesn't have a name that we know of; we, and the Shadows we've encountered who've survived him, only know him as 'the one in the black mask.' Shaped... like so." Joker raises their hands to their face and gestures outwards for a long beak, then up and back for curled horns. "It doesn't seem his style--he seems to prefer to fight directly--but if there's anyone who's doing something like that, or knows who's doing that, he's our main suspect."
They slip their hands back into their pockets and shrug. "...But I can understand if you think this an all-too-convenient excuse. All I can give you is my word that I speak the truth."
<Pose Tracker> Tatsuya Suou has posed.
Tatsuya can't know about the conspiracy that Ren is only scraping at the surface of, with Principal Kobayakawa and Shujin. While this all leads back to the NWO, he has something of a unique blind spot in it -- one where he's prone to glossing over details or becoming uninterested in it because he ultimately knows that it's all a machination by Nyarlathotep... but in glossing over those details because he feels it'd just be 'on the rails' that that figure is laying out for him, the further he'll get from the truth.
His target is Sudou, after all. He can't think of how many people he has to fell before it's all over... he'll go mad from the realisation...
He has to believe he can still nip this in the bud, before it blossoms.
But Joker doesn't visibly have answer to that comment, and the topic moves onto the subject of Seki and -- Joker's suspicion of who might've done it. An unknown Persona User in a black mask, shaped like a... what would that be, some kind of stylised knight helmet? A bird?
"A black mask... hm." He doesn't want to admit it, but that shape of helmet is first unsettlingly reminding him of the Longinus mecha from the Order of the Reunion. Those units were white, though... and also, bigger than a person.
It's true that he could just suspect Joker of giving an all-too-convenient excuse. Joker can only give their word. Tatsuya's not certain, but...
He doesn't get the impression that Joker is a mastermind in the grand scheme of things. No, he has his theatrics, and certainly is commanding the attention of the media with his seemingly masterful acts of thievery, but their posture and choice of words reminds him more of his own guardedness for his own protection, rather than protecting some kind of master plan...
...and...
... this individual just... isn't the Master Joker, or some twisted individual attempting to be Jun, which was his first and foremost fear.
"I'll keep that in mind," Tatsuya starts, those thoughts well concealed underneath, finally sheathing his sword to his side. "You certainly still have secrets you're keeping, perhaps for good reason, with how many are out there to get you. You've got my eyes on your theatrics and heists..."
As if to say, 'if things change for the worse, then I'll come chasing you'.
"But I've already got my hands full chasing another Joker -- the Joker Killer."
He turns around and starts down the subway tunnel at a slow pace, leaving Joker some time for other parting words should they desire.
<Pose Tracker> Ren Amamiya has posed.
They've both got a lot going on, huh? And both of them are just trying to keep their secrets close--trying to protect the ones they care about, trying to enact their own form of Justice.
Admittedly there are lots of Persona Users out there with black masks--one or two within the Phantom Thieves, even--but between the color and the shape of the Black Mask... if Tatsuya ever encounters him, he ought to know him by sight. Then he'll see for himself what kind of fiend he is... even if he's not a full-on mecha. That would be quite a fight, though.
Ultimately, it seems like Tatsuya is willing to take Joker's word for it. They nod once as he sheathes his sword. "If you're taking care of him... then that's a relief for us."
They don't explain what they mean by that, but it's not hard to come to a conclusion, at least. They watch Tatsuya go for a moment; then they get back in the Monacar, reverse felicle, and head in another direction.
They've got a lot more to think about now, but it really is a relief knowing there's someone so serious-minded dedicated to stopping the Old Maid's reign of terror.